By Lally
Weymouth|Posted Friday, March 15, 2013, at 11:59
AM
Singapore—Lee
Kuan Yew founded Singapore and built the city-state from virtually
nothing into a thriving economy and a leading Asian financial
center. His son, Lee Hsien Loong, has been prime minister since
2004 and is grappling with new realities: a more politically
empowered and tech-savvy generation, a rising China, and an
American superpower intent on pivoting toward the Asia. Prime
Minister Lee spoke this past week in Singapore with Lally Weymouth
about regional tensions, the arrival of casinos in his country, and
whether his job ever gets dull. Excerpts:
Lally Weymouth: What do you think of the Obama administration's
pivot toward Asia?
Lee Hsien Loong: We are all in favor of the U.S. taking an active
and constructive interest in Asia. I'm not sure I would describe it
as a pivot. First, it suggests that this area has been neglected,
which isn't quite so. Secondly, you really want a long-term,
implacable, inexorable presence, and I'm not sure if the pivot
conveys that nuance.
L.W.: Does "pivot" convey that the United States could pivot back
to the Middle East?
L.H.L: Yes, I think so, because America has got such broad
interests around the world and such pressing issues to deal with in
so many places. Asia is just one of them, and it is a peaceful part
of the world. It may not be on the front burner.
L.W.: Some say that the Chinese perceive the United States as weak
and allege that the administration backed down on the Scarborough
Shoal [contested by the Philippines and China in the South China
Sea], allowing China to push the Philippines around. Now Washington
is worried about a possible Japan-China confrontation in the East
China Sea. Do you see the U.S. administration as standing up
strong?
L.H.L: The U.S. is not a claimant state in the South China Sea or
in the China-Japan dispute over the Senkaku Islands. But, of
course, the 7th Fleet has been a presence in the region since the
Second World War, and it is the most powerful fleet in the region.
I think it has a stabilizing influence on the security of the
region ... encouraging countries to exercise restraint in dealing
with these very difficult territorial disputes.
L.W.: Are you concerned about the rising tension between China and
Japan?
L.H.L: There are nationalist sentiments on both sides, and it's an
issue where neither side can afford to be seen to back down. We
hope neither side escalates and triggers something unintended. I
think something can happen. I don't think it's the intention of
either side to spark a conflagration, but when you have ships at
sea coming close to one another or aircraft—mishaps can happen.
L.W.: How do you see China under its new leadership?
L.H.L: I think their preoccupations are with their domestic issues,
which are considerable. But at the same time, they see their
sovereignty and territorial integrity as a responsibility of any
Chinese government to uphold and protect. And how flexibly they
define that and how the give-and-take works out—well, you have to
watch the actions as well as the rhetoric.
L.W.: In the speech you gave in China last fall, it seemed as if
you were advising the Chinese to tread lightly.
L.H.L: Yes, because they have broader interests. Their interests
are not just the [islands] which are in dispute or the resources,
but their larger reputation in the world as an emerging power. Are
they going to be benign and not only play by the rules but leave
space for other countries that are not as powerful to prosper? One
of the reasons America is welcome in Asia is because with America
... there is a certain idealism and a certain bigness of soul. You
want the region to prosper, you want countries to do well, and you
are prepared to help them.
L.W.: The Singapore-U.S. relationship is very deep.
L.H.L: It's a long-standing relationship that covers many
areas.
L.W.: You are going to Washington next month to visit President
Obama?
L.H.L: I hope so, yes. The last time I visited a president was in
2007, when George W. Bush was president.
L.W.: What about the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which is currently
under negotiation? What is your assessment of this trade
agreement?
L.H.L: I think it's an important deal strategically for
Asia-Pacific. It links both sides of the Pacific, the developed as
well as some of the developing countries. It is a good standard and
yet practical, and it will make a significant contribution to
economic integration in APEC [the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation
group].
L.W.: Is there any chance it will be passed?
L.H.L: That depends on the Congress, not on us.
L.W.: It seems the Americans are trying to protect their
industries, and at the same time they're saying that other
countries should have a level playing field.
L.H.L: Of course. That's what trade negotiators start off saying.
But if you can move beyond that starting position, then you can
have a good deal.
L.W.: The United States is losing market share in ASEAN [the
Association of Southeast Asian Nations] to China and other
countries.
L.H.L: For many countries, the biggest partner is China. ... But in
terms of an economic partner, the U.S. is very important—your
investments, your technology. I don't think the Chinese are in the
position to match that for a long time.
L.W.: Do you worry about the rise of China?
L.H.L: Everybody here would like to benefit from it. At the same
time, we would like to remain friends with all our other friends,
including the U.S., India, and the E.U.
L.W.: Is that a hard balancing act?
L.H.L: No, we would like to have our cake and eat it and be friends
with everybody. As long as our friends are friends with one
another, we are OK.
L.W.: Does that mean you want the United States to be more involved
with China?
L.H.L: We want the U.S. to have constructive and stable relations
with China. That makes it much easier for us. Then we don't have to
choose sides.
L.W.: Your country has enjoyed enormous [economic]
growth.
L.H.L: We have been lucky. [We] depend on a stable international
order.
L.W.: Now, you are trying not to let so many immigrants come
here.
L.H.L: We are
trying to manage our population. It is necessary.
We are a small island—700-odd square kilometers. There is a finite
limit to how many people can be accommodated, and we have to
control the inflow. If we don't do anything, millions of Chinese
would arrive at our shores.
L.W.: How will cutting down immigration affect small
business?
L.H.L: Small businesses will find the tightening very
difficult.
L.W.: Why is it smart to slow down the economy?
L.H.L: We are accepting a lower growth because we can't just expand
our workforce without limit and constraint.
L.W.: Is that popular with the population?
L.H.L: The population feels the physical pressure of the foreigners
coming and working here, some [of whom] are prepared to work longer
hours or accept less. I don't think everybody fully appreciates the
consequences of slower growth, which are very serious. You need
growth to have the resources to build the infrastructure, housing,
to uphold the standard of living.
L.W.: In the last election, your party lost some seats. You will
have to manage a [political] transition with a younger generation,
which expects more.
L.H.L: It's a
different generation, a different society, and the politics will be
different. ... We have to work in a more open way.
We have to accept more of the untidiness and the to-ing and
fro-ing, which is part of normal politics.
L.W.: Is that hard for you?
L.H.L: It is a major change, of course, which we hope we will be
able to navigate safely over a period of time and not suddenly.
L.W.: To make [government] more transparent and open to social
media?
L.H.L: It's completely open to social media. Previously, everything
was orderly and predictable. Now there are many more voices, views
and interests ... and the outcome is a lot more difficult to
predict, and the reactions are more difficult to judge.
L.W.: You grew up as the son of the most famous man in this
country.
L.H.L: I did not choose my father, but I am proud of him.
L.W.: You decided recently to allow gambling in Singapore. Has it
been a boost for the economy?
L.H.L: For a long time, we fought in principle against casinos.
Finally, we were persuaded it's big business and if we were not in
it, someone else would be. It was becoming increasingly more
difficult to shield our people from gambling. We can't be the
nanny.
L.W.: Economically it's worked out very well.
L.H.L: Very
well. The social impact—we'll have to wait a few
years to see.
L.W.: Are you worried that the United States has such a huge fiscal
imbalance?
L.H.L: To fix it, you don't actually have to do very drastic
things. If you could make an adjustment on health care, if you had
a gasoline tax—that would make a big difference.
Your problem is in the short term, you don't really want to shut
down your spending and crash the economy. But in the long term, you
don't want to keep on spending and then go bankrupt.
L.W.: Is nationalism in China and Japan a real problem for the
region?
L.H.L: I think it's a real factor, in China particularly. It is
growing because the young generation, who have not experienced
either the war or the Cultural Revolution, but have grown up at a
time of stability and affluence, have the most nationalistic view
of China's role in the world. So how they play their cards when
they come to positions of responsibility will make a
difference.
L.W.: Does the PLA [People's Liberation Army] have a lot of say in
China today?
L.H.L: I'm sure they have an influence, but some very well-informed
analysts believe the [Communist] Party is firmly in control of the
government. I think on certain issues, the PLA will have a lot of
say and will probably be doing their own thing. When it comes to
territorial issues, I would imagine that this is handled at the top
level.
L.W.: What's your assessment of the new Chinese
leadership?
L.H.L: They are all able people. We have met quite a number of the
members of the Politburo Standing Committee. They are tested. They
have played many different roles in China, and I think they want
the country to grow. I think they have got in [President] Xi
Jinping a leader to take it to the next step forward.
L.W.: Which is where?
L.H.L: They have to make the economy continue to grow and yet
[make] significant economic reforms. They have to adapt to a
society that is rapidly changing with social media and the growing
middle class. ... And they've got to find their way in the world
and realize they are now more powerful than they used to be.
L.W.: What are the key issues for Singapore itself?
L.H.L: We have to negotiate a major change in our phase of
development, from a rapidly changing phase to slower growth. We
have to negotiate a change in generations, to a new generation that
is growing up with the Internet and Facebook and has access to the
whole world and is seeing opportunities all over the whole
world.
L.W.: Do you still enjoy your job?
L.H.L: It's never a boring job.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2013/03/lee_hsien_loong
